Background: Within the first week of moving to Hawai'i, just over a year ago, I bought a used van for all of us and was able to turn my Enterprise rental car back in early to save money. I paid for as much of the van as I could up front, and was even able to save $1,000 in negotiation (I walked out when they couldn't explain some cryptic charge they had added without telling me and came back the next day when they called me), but I had to take a bank loan out for the rest. I asked for a two year loan to try to pay it off quickly with as little interest as possible. Since then I have been paying early from time to time when I could. Back in March I was even able to pay four months at once (four payment coupons and a check for all of them in the same envelope). However, money has also been tight from time to time. I thought since I paid early I could skip a payment once in a while when I needed to (seven fat years and seven lean years), so for instance, I have not yet (in September) sent in a payment in August. So, in a sense, we have not made a payment in the last month, but also, according to my records, we are not behind in payments, they have been made previously. (Sorry if this is complicated but I am trying to state this as completely as possible.) Once, months ago they called me at work and asked if I was going to send in a payment that month, I told them yes I was and I did. Nothing stood out as a real warning flag or anything but in retrospect maybe it should have.
Tuesday night (Sept. 11), at midnight, I heard a truck stop outside at the road next to our house. For some reason it woke me up and I looked out the window. The truck's lights were on and two people were walking around our van in the carport and sliding bars under it! I told V as I jumped up and ran outside flipping on all the lights I could; V was right behind me. I yelled "what's going on" and one of the men held up a paper and said that they were authorized to reposes this vehicle. The other guy never stopped moving and kept hooking it up to the tow truck that was backed up behind it (which, because of the carport roof, was not visible from the house). I announced to them that I had to get something out and grabbed a box of stuff that was irreplaceable and needed at my job. (That night V picked me up at work and I placed the box in the van to bring back to a different building at work in the morning.) V opened the other door and unhooked F's car seat and we were able to grab a few more things before they started dragging it away. The first guy left a card with a number on it: "Donna (808) 943-4544". The rest of the card says "Manheim Hawaii, 1001 Ahua Street, Honolulu, Hawaii 96819, Phone: 808-840-8900, Fax: 808-840-8999, www.manheim.com". A google search gives a tagline for manheim as "The Leading Wholesale Vehicle Auction Operation in the World."
The next morning (Sept. 12) V started calling the number at 6:30 am, three times an hour but couldn't get through excapt occasionally to someone that is not "Donna," who "is away from her desk," and to call back later. We also called the bank the loan was from (First Hawaiian Bank) to try to learn what was going on on their end. And we called Enterprise again to rent a car. No car was available until that afternoon so the kids did not make it to school and I didn't make it to work that day. I had an important meeting, the first of its kind, that I was supposed to be at. All I could do was call in and say I was sorry but I couldn't make it. We had to write sick notes for the kids because car repossession is not a permitted excuse for missing school.
Once, near noon, V got through to "Donna" on the phone, who answered with "First Hawaiian Bank" but "Donna" claimed she couldn't hear and had a bad connection and to call right back. V tried this and immediately got someone else, who answered with Manheim Auto Loan, that said Donna was not at her desk and to call back later. V said she is there, I just talked to her seconds ago...! When we called the bank and went along the chain they gave different statements, one person said that payment had not been received in June, July or August, another person said payment had not been received since March(!). Technically these are not inconsistent statements but why can't they just be clear and complete about what their records indicate? I keep records of my accounts and transactions on my computer with moneydance software. I looked up a payment for over $800 on my end to First Hawaiian and checked with my credit union online to confirm that it was cashed (it was) but the bank said over the phone that they had no record of the transaction! (And yes, I sent the payment with the account info from the repayment coupon book with the loan, so there is no excuse for confusing which account this is supposed to be.) The MO for these banks and repossession companies is to offer for you to get your car back if you switch to a high interest (18-20%) predatory loan--the assumption being that you have no choice but to accept because you were behind on the payments to begin with. We were not going to play that game and asked the bank exactly what was the payoff balance for the van loan (it was approximately $2,400 plus $1,300 in "fees" because of the repossession) if we came in and paid it today and wrote this amount quoted to us down to the penny. By mid afternoon I was back from Enterprise and V, F, and I left to town to go to our credit union, got a cashiers check for the payoff balance, and went to the bank to pay it off and clear up that part of the control they had over us.
At the bank we went to the teller, handed them the check, gave them my ID and told them to apply it to pay off the loan. There were long moments of silence and confusion on the teller's side as he typed on keys on his terminal and stared at everything. Then without explanation or even an "excuse me" he walked away to the back of the bank for a long time. He talked with other people that appeared to work there and came back, went back again, came back and said the payoff amount on the check was for the wrong amount (big surprise, I knew this would happen, for some reason many businesses never seem to be able to answer questions clearly and correctly when you plainly ask them, like payoff amounts for loans, etc.). The check was too high. Starting out, I was very irritated so V was talking to them and I carried F around the lobby to keep her occupied. V explained that it was the amount they quoted to her just a few hours ago. He explained that part of it was for the repossession company which had nothing to do with them. We told them that they could cut a check for the company that answered the phone with First Hawaiian Bank. This apparently was a problem, not only was the bank unable to keep track of money or correctly quote a payoff balance, they seemed to be unaware of a method (checks, wire, a bag filled with money, couriers, trained pigeons, a mattresses contraption on wheels with money stuffed in it...?) to transfer funds between departments or accounts. After a long time of nowhere, V was getting mad and explained to the teller that over $800, which we can confirm they cashed, was missing from the account payments on their end and demanded that he check for it. At this the tone changed and there was the first hint of worry and seriousness. Suddenly it was within possibility, according to the laws of this universe, to pay everything off from the check we gave them. The teller even called up the people that stole the van in the middle of the night and handed the phone to V over the desk so she could talk to them directly. Of course they put her on hold and we waited, with V holding the phone, the teller waiting and two other tellers hovering and discussing with him, staring and pointing at the screen. We all waited like that for a long time while F fussed and grabbed things.
To be continued... Sorry for the delay, but I have been very busy getting the kids back and fourth to school, helping them with their homework, making up for two lost work days because of the bank, etc.
Finally, at 3:15pm, we were routed around to someone back at the bank that was able to speak over a phone. They said the auction company had closed for the day, it was only open from 9am to 3pm and that we would have to pay for an extra day of storage. (Suddenly after they were closed we could talk over a phone.) V asked how much that was, $20.44 a day, and it had to be in cash. So V said I bring in $40.88 for two days, hand that to them and that's it, we can go? This brought a "well... " instead of a "yes." Then the woman said we would have to negotiate a price to buy back our personal belongings that were in the van when they took it, and quickly added that this was between us and the auction company and had nothing to do with the bank (right!). So, without warning, they came in the middle of the night, made off with our stuff, and we are supposed to pay them for what they stole and we own! It's not like they notified us and gave us a chance to clean out the van first.
So, we dropped off the kids the next morning (Sept. 13) with the rental car and went straight to the auction house. The google map directions took us through a military zone, the auction house was on the other side, and we couldn't go through because of course we don't have a military ID. So we had to work our way around. (This has happened to me before here, why do map directions route you through military bases that the vast majority of people can not drive through? And, O'ahu is covered in bases (25% of the land area); driving around past all the check point gates you feel like this is an occupied country.) So we got there and waited in line, and waited, finally talked to someone, and were told to wait around the corner, and waited, and waited. Finally someone came by on a golf cart and said our van "had to be checked in first." I asked why and what are you doing to it. The only response he gave was that all cars that come there have to be « checked in ». So we waited. Later he came back on the cart with two trash bags. He told us the bags contained our personal stuff and we needed to sign for them. For some reason we were not allowed to open the bags. (We were under a security camera; it may not even be hooked up; I suspect its main function is intimidation.). I asked, then how do we know what is in them? He pointed to a sheet on his clipboard and said it is listed on the sheet. I asked for a copy and he said a copy was in one of the bags. So I started reading the form he wanted me to sign. The whole time he is talking at me trying to distract me saying I don't need to read it and it just says I am signing for return of our things. I find the words "processing fee" and ask what that is. He says for storage of our things (that they just took out of our van minutes before). I ask how much is that. He says $75. I tell him I am not paying one penny, but I am taking one thing. I rip open the bag, take the itemized sheet that is supposed to be my copy, and say I am taking the list of things you stole from me. (I don't care if it is the Hope Diamond; I am not paying a lying thief for return of my property; we all might as well pay protection money to mobsters and discard our principles completely.) I stand back and refuse to say another word to him. So he tries to talk to V instead and entice her to sign the sheet, which makes me irritated and I suspect that is the point. Eventually he goes away with our stuff.
More waiting, waiting, waiting. At one point I look at my phone and it is 11am. I am very thankful I arranged for someone else at work to cover for me today. I walk around and play with some of their equipment while waiting (an air compressor, etc... which gets some stares) and flip through an auction clip board someone left out, reading the names, etc. (more looks). I go around front and lo-and-behold, there is our van parked right in front while we are told to wait around back. Two guys are standing next to it looking at it and laughing out loud about some joke between them. Our rental is parked nearby and I was prepared for something like this. I open the trunk, pull out my camera, and their smiles disappeared when they saw me coming toward them camera ready.
I take pictures of the van from three angles and wait next to it for a while as the guys find other interesting things to look at and wander off. I go back tell V and come back with her. She talks me out of getting in a driving off because we still « owe » the lot and even though it is now paid for we don't have the title. One of the guys came back while I went around to V; he is sitting the the passenger seat for a long time writing things down in a notebook and looking through the drawers. He gets out and pops the hood and takes pictures of the engine (?), then walks around the van taking pictures of every angle and every dent and scratch while at one point obviously leering at me (now he has his own pictures of the van I guess?). We wait and wait and wait.
Eventually someone comes with a W-9 IRS tax form and tells me I need to fill it out. I say why? She says because I am giving them money and they need to report it to the IRS. I wonder why I don't need to fill one out when I buy groceries at the grocery store. She keeps yammering about something. I turn to V and ask, should I sign this? V says probably, yeah; while the woman interrupts and trys to say I have to do it. So I turn to sign it, but I am not signing it blank, especially with these people around, who have lied to us several times already, so I start to fill it out first. I ask if the tax classification section refers to me or to them--simple question and she didn't bring the instruction part of the sheet. The woman replies in a stupid, talking down, drone that I am an individual so I need to check individual... I finish it and say back to her, slowly in the same voice, this is your pen (holding out the pen), I'm not stealing from you so I am giving it back for free. She wanders off.
Finally someone else comes with a clipboard and gives us a form to turn into the cashier to pay for « storage ». This is with the original amounts marked out; that they tried to trick us to agree to pay for with our personal stuff added on by signing the sheet when they brought us the trash bags. I rip off a piece of paper from the lower half of one of their forms and start to copy the amounts down when someone finally gives in and offers to make a copy for me. Then we wait in line. Finally, we give the cashier the cash for storage and she puts together three sheets of paper with carbon paper between them and tells me to sign it. I ask why? She says it is a receipt for payment that I need to sign (?). I pull the ends of the papers up to see what the other ones say while she tries to hold them all down from her side and tells me I don't need to do that because they all say the same thing. I tell her I don't believe a word she or anyone else there says and want to see for myself before I sign it. She keeps talking and I stop listening and pull up the sheets. It turns out in this case they were telling the truth the part of the pages I could see were the same.
So we're done now, right? No, as we walk toward our van someone is standing in the way with a form to sign that says we have carefully looked the van over and it is in the same condition as before, blah, blah, blah..., complete nonsense. Why couldn't they have given that to us to fill out during the hours we were waiting next to the van? And, what are we supposed to compare to? We don't have pre-repo pictures...
So, finally, the rental car is in my name so V gets in the van to drive off. In the nick of time too because we have to pick up the kids and V has to get to class (she has missed one already)! I go to the rental, but there is a problem and V stops at the entrance. I walk back to see what is going on. There is no registration or proof of insurance in the glove compartment. They even took that! She parks and blocks the entrance and talks to people through the window until they bring the registration out to her. Then we can finally get going. It is too late to turn the rental back in so we have to pay for another day on that.
V had a new maternity swimsuit that she hasn't even had a chance to wear yet that was in the van, plus some things like a mug from Germany and birthday cards. I offered to buy her another one but the next day she goes back and pays for our stuff, which goes against what I feel is right, but the last thing I am going to allow is for those kind of people to create an argument between us. I save the receipts of everything to take back to the bank to get to the bottom of this, but in the meantime I have work to do and catch up on.
Update: Today, Sept. 18, I receive two letters in the mail from the bank saying our van will be repossessed.
Update: Sept. 19, I went by our credit union and confirmed with them that the auto loan payments that were missing on the bank's side were cashed and cleared on the credit union's side.
Update: Sept. 27, I received the title for the van in the mail.
...will write more when I have time...
[notes: http://www.ripoffreport.com/motor-vehicle-division/manheim-southern-cal/manheim-southern-california-so-6c982.htm , mo to withhold info and have surprises when in person so you can't plan ahead and are kept off balance, have to pay b/c arrange time off work, pick up kids, etc., also set up to trick you to agreeing to things that they could have informed up front but did not, process designed to drag out and humiliate you as much as possible , no one on their side seems to be responsible for anything and it is always a separate person, office, company etc. that is responsible but is never available]
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